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TAGnotes Thu 21 Nov 2002 Vol 4 Number 53 Issue 435

The Auction Guild Notes Thu 21 Nov 2002 Part I

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6000 subscribers
The TAGnotes archive is available in a searchable format at     
Once again army duty combined with a very glitchy and outage
loaded ebaY, have caused TAG to get behind in sending
newsletters. Due to the length of the newsletter we will have to
break this up into two parts. We apologize for this

ebaY - On Fri 8 Nov, ebaY and ebaY Billpoint payments were
down for maintenance from approx 01:18 to 03:20.   PayPal was
down from approx 00:00 PT 03:00PT for maintenance. At
08:36:46 PT ebaY posted that PayPal was down 08:00 PT to
08:33 PT. At 09:11:27 PT users reported that images on auctions
could not be viewed by Netscape browsers. This was caused by
an ebaY coding glitch.   This problem was corrected at 09:45:36
PT. At :06:18 PT users reported completed auctions search
returning error messages, "didn't specify region".   At 11:28:40
PT, users reported the words to exclude function was not
working. This is and intermittent problem that users have noted
for over a month. At 14:03:02 PT ebaY posted that the ability to
search for items by attributes using the Item Specifics Product
Finder was down from 13:04 PT to 14:00 PT. At 15:31:26 PT
users reported ongoing problems with gallery images not
showing, being replaced by a box that says, "click here to view
the picture". This intermittent problem has been going on for
over a year, along with many other gallery related problems. TAG
does not recommend gallery as it is very unreliable, and
therefore a waste of money. At 21:01:22 PT ebaY reported the
ebaY home page was down from 20:41 PT to 20:57 PT.

On 9 Nov at 07:38:48 PT the problem with auction images not
showing when using the Netscape browser showed up again.    
This was happening intermittently with images appearing and
disappearing and continued throughout the day.

On 10 Nov at 17:21:18 PT sellers reported that winner email
addys were not showing after the auction ended. At 17:35:22 PT,
users reported that search was not working, returning,"page
cannot be displayed" and "cannot find server or dns error"
messages. At 17:39:39 PT users reported more search
problems, with the Friday maintenance message showing up
whilst trying to access search. At 18:34:20 PT sellers reported
receiving questions from bidders ebaY's email system delayed
for 20 or more hours.   At 18:40:00 PT buyers reported their
automated snipe programs were not working, and their bids
were not going through. At 19:03:12 PT a user reported that to
add a credit card to their PayPal account, they would be charged
a $1.95 refundable fee with a 30 day lag time before they could
use the new card.

On 11 Nov at 04:18:33 PT, sellers reported Turbo Lister
frequently crashing with the problem appearing to be caused by
a limit as to how much you can do in one session before the
program crashes.   At 07:22:11 PT users reported that clicking
on a PayPal logo on an auction would reveal the email address
of the seller to all and sundry.   At 07:24:12 PT sellers reported
that they heard from bidders who could not get a bid to go
through the evening of 10 Nov. At 11:44:34 PT, buyers reported
that seller search was not working, with a message showing up
in the block where the seller's ID is entered. At 19:04:39 PT
buyers reported a pop up ad appearing after they placed a bid on
an item, preventing the buyer from placing a follow up bid. At
20:18:02 PT sellers trying to place a Dutch Auction ended up with
a Fixed Price Auction.   When entering the dollar amount and
quantity, sellers received error messages, and the auction type
switched from Dutch to fixed.

On 12 Nov, despite an announcement that store listings were
free from 12 to 14 Nov, sellers listing store items were charged
for the items. The announcement also said the promotion was
for 4 days, but 12 to 14 is three days, leaving questionable the
ability of ebaY to count. At 15:05:13 PT ebaY posted that they
were delaying the launch of their Listing Designer feature,
"because the feature was not performing as we expected".
Since these problems caused a delay in the launch ebaY
decided to defer the launch until after the holiday "quiet period"
was over. They expected to launch the product after 1 Jan 03.   
TAG applauds this restraint on ebaY's part. At 18:37:34 PT
sellers reported that Turbo Lister was not working.   At 19:02:02
PT, sellers again reported that email addys were not showing on
closed auctions. One workaround for this problem is to use an
ebaY co-brand site such as www.ebay.netscape.com, and
access auctions from there. At 19:30:46 PT sellers posted that
Mister Lister was not working. This was reported again at
19:47:30 PT. At 23:29:49 PT ebaY posted that users could not
access some ebaY pages including the Home Page, from 22:07
PT to 22:49 PT.

On 13 Nov at 02:10:44 PT users reported that email addresses
were showing on auction and feedback pages across the site, to
anyone viewing the site, signed in or not. This continued for over
6 hours, giving spammers and email address harvesters free
access to the email addys of ebaY users. On 13 Nov at 06:10:12
PT the email problem became intermittent. with email
addresses appearing and disappearing on different pages and
from reload to reload. Paradoxically, sellers logged in to My
ebaY could not view the winning bidder email addys on their
closed auctions. ebaY's sole announcement board employee,
gwyn-@ebay.com posted at 06:58:12 PT that, " ... to answer
the questions about why no AB. I just heard about this and we're
working on it". At 07:38:24 PT ebaY posted that "Some members
are reporting that the winning bidder's email is appearing on the
listing page. This issue appears to affect only certain listings,
and does not appear on all item pages." They posted about this
problem again at 08:30:11 PT and users reported the problem
fixed at 08:33:49 PT. At 10:54:19 PT sellers received "this page
can't be displayed" messages whilst attempting to list items. At
10:59:15 PT sellers reported they could not view buyer email
addresses on closed auctions. Again, a workaround for this
problem is to access the listings or sellers closed auction page
via an ebaY co-brand site.   At 11:02:17 PT, users reported that
My ebaY was down yielding "this page can't be displayed",
messages. At 11:04:16 PT users reported search down, listing
down, and My ebaY down. Functions were back up at 11:07:38
PT and down again at 11:30:39 PT. Users reported problems
across the site with many error messages including "page can't
be displayed, 504 errors, and "connection reset by peer". The
site was back up at 11:39:27 PT, but at 11:53:56 PT, the errors
started again. At 12:14:01 PT sellers reported that relisted
auctions showed up with blank descriptions, and attempts at
revision did not work either. At 12:41:36 PT buyers reported
search not working, with blank screens with only categories
showing on the left of the screen. This occurred using several
different browsers. At 12:51:17 PT bidders reported they could
not get the BIN function to work on items and had to use the
feature several times to get it to take. More search problems
were reported at 13:21:21 PT, and at 13:41:51 PT users reported
items showing up twice on search results. At 13:48:30 PT,
users reported getting 400 error messages and had problems
BINing an item. At 14:42:31 PT users reported that the last
title/description update showed, "This page was last updated:
Nov-12 14:39". At 14:45:31 PT users trying to access the ebaY
chat boards received a message saying, "Invalid Board Sorry,
this chat board is no longer available." At 15:42 PT sellers
reported that if they listed using the gift option, the listing fees
on the auction were multiplied by 4. This was happening using
the SYI2.0 form and Turbo Lister. At 20:04:52 PT sellers
reported they could not add Vrane.Com counters to their
auctions. At 21:25:22 PT users reported that search was finally
updating, after delays of 31 hours.

On 14 Nov at 04:41:51 PT buyers reported that they could not
view seller email addys on completed auctions.    At 04:53:14 PT
buyers trying to use PayPal to pay for an auction, received "seller
not registered with PayPal" messages. Repeated attempts
finally got the payment to go through. At 05:07:18 PT Vrane's
relist function was not working with ebaY. At 12:43:14 PT users
reported the Auction of America icon was showing up on search
results.   At 13:36:09 PT sellers reported that Turbo Lister was
not working. At 14:01:19 PT a user reported arbitrary letter
appearing in the tabs of their My ebaY pages. At 14:47:07 PT
users reported receiving bad request messages whilst trying to
access ebaY. At 14:48:59 PT users received 596 errors -
"browser doesn't support this page" messages. At 17:06:51 PT
users reported cgi 6 down making seller's lists unavailable.
Messages saying, "Books,Movies,TV items are currently
unavailable" showed up regardless of what category users
searched.   At 17:08:42 PT, buyers trying to open items received
"Unable To Process Request-See Announcement Board"
messages. At 17:11:35 PT users reported 404 errors across the
site. At 17:15:15 PT, users received "reset by peer" messages,
across the site. At 17:33:02 PT ebaY posted that the ebaY
holiday bid, match and win game, was down for a short time
from 21:00 PT. At 20:13:41 PT ebaY iPix pictures services were

On 15 Nov ebaY.com and ebaY Billpoint payments were down
for maintenance from approx 00:57:25 PT to 03:22:19 PT. At
05:14:48 PT users reported access to the PayPal site was not
working and PayPal was down since approx 04:00. PayPal
returned messages that, "We are experiencing temporary
difficulties. Please try again later. Error 3005".   At 05:58:12 PT
users reported hearing from ebaY that there was a problem with
their gallery image link. The page to fix this problem was
returning input errors. ebaY made changes to the categories on
ebaY Motors, and there were many complaints throughout the
day about the changes made to the Motorcycle categories. This
appears to have caused many problems for buyers searching for
parts, and TAG thinks ebaY should look at the comments made
by buyers and modify the changes they made. In particular the
Motorcycle categories need to be separated by country of origin.
At 20:02:15 PT sellers reported problems with signing in, with
the site not accepting established user ID and passwords, and
security number showing up on second attempts.   

Pink Quote of the Day - On 13 Nov, in a conversation about the 5
hour lag between the discovery that email addys were appearing
all over the ebaY site visible to anyone viewing the site, and the
first posting about the problem on the status announcement
board (SAB) gwyn-@ebay.com said at 07:18:37 PT, ".... You
just have to understand that there is a human being (me)
running the AB, and sometimes I do sleep, drive, leave
the computer. :) I try to post on issue just as soon as I find out
about them." It boggles the mind that ebaY employs one human
being to staff the announcement boards 24/7. If this person goes
on vacation do all announcements stop? This is ridiculous, and
maybe Meg should throw a few thousand of the Billion dollars
she cashed out of ebaY stock this year back at ebaY so they can
afford the salary of a second board poster.

Board Quote of the Day I - Posted by www.bllamb.com on 10 Nov
at 09:09:01 PT "turbolister was not designed for sellers, it was
designed for ebay's marketing dept..."
View his website at - http://www.bllamb.com

Board Quote of the Day II - Posted by st2 on 10 Nov at 19:52:24
PT, "I think it's time for Ebay to acknowledge that they are in the
AUCTION business and accept the inherent responsibilities! In
taking over Sotheby's web sales Ebay redefined the 250 year old
respected auction house as a "VENUE", their scheme for
avoiding responsibility. Real auctions come from a 300 year
backlog of experience; they weren't invented overnight as Ebay
"invents" programs. Ebay would benefit by sending their MBA
vp's to Kansas City to learn what real auctions are. Let them sell
some cows and gain a respect for this honorable profession. In
taking over Sothebys.com Ebay has again made the mistake of
forcing it into the mold of the ill fated Great Collections and
Premier. Extended time closings are gone, sniping rules, and no
bidder with sense would ever bid before the final 30 seconds
lest their competitors know all their interests. All very unreal; a
serious sale can't ever take place on these terms, and I'm sure
the Sothebys people know it. The LIVE auctions are equally
flawed as can be seen by anyone who has bid in them. Ebay
management finds it difficult, if not impossible, to accept advice.
Last summer at Anaheim Paypal had a dozen vp's agressively
working the crowd for feedback and suggestions as to what was
needed. Ebay, whose own payment system was in chaos,
BOUGHT PAYPAL! Ebay management at the meeting were
generally defensive and not seeking ideas. Business cards,
when offered, lacked contact information. These people live in
isolation. What does it take to get Ebay to take 300 years of REAL
auctions and experienced people like Sothebys seriously? You
tell me! All I know is that at present their goal appears to be to
mold the world into matching their naive understanding of what
auctions are and how they work. Too bad! What a waste!

Board Quote of the Day III - Posted by marginally*marginal on 11
Nov at 15:07:00 PT, "I think the new eBay DIE campaign goes
perfectly with the listing for 99 cents for 20 cents campaign. If you
list an item for 99 cents and it sells, you DIE. It cost you 20 cents
to list it, and 5 cents in FVF, which is 25% of the total. If you're
buried in that piece for 50 cents, you DIE. If you DON'T sell it the
first time, it's *already* cost you 20% of the "value", you DIE. If
you take a gamble and list it a second time to try to recover the
initial listing fee and it doesn't sell, it's just cost you 30 cents
(because you pay the fee IF it doesn't sell!) and you DIE, you are
now *BURIED* in this dog for 50 cents and you haven't done
*squat* but DIE paying fees to watch it DIE. Do It Ebay. DIE."

Board Quote of the Day IV - Posted by marginally*marginal on 12
Nov at 18:15:53 PT, "I think gallery works in reverse. People want
to find stuff no one else has found, so they go to the items
without gallery to find the "hidden bargains". You are more likely
to sell your item -- and for MORE money --WITHOUT gallery that
you are WITH gallery, regardless of what eBay says. eBay
WANTS you to *believe* gallery "helps sell" because they make
their MONEY selling you that snake oil. There is not ONE
*SINGLE* solitary statistic ANYWHERE that proves gallery sells
better than no gallery. It's just eBay's premise, unsupported by
*any* documentation or evidence."

In a flagrant violation of ebaY's promise to never put advertising
on the pages paid for by the seller (AB posting Jan 2000 - "As in
the past, eBay will not display ads onto individual auction pages
(the View Item pages). ") ebaY has added a Hallmark pop up
advertisement, for a contest, to the post bidding portion of the
view item pages.   TAG sees this as a violation of the 'quiet
period' promise, as it directly affects a buyer's ability to bid on
auctions, even though it falls under the 'promotion' exemption.

This popup, a universally abhorred form of advertising, prevents
the buyer from re-bidding until the buyer can get rid of the pop up.
There have been posts all over the OIA/OTI chat boards from
furious bidders who lost the chance to re-bid because of this
obnoxious pop up. Sellers have also received endless emails
from buyers about their inability to make last minute bids and

Since Hallmark is sure to not want to be paying for a promotion
that garners them bad publicity and anger from the public, TAG
recommends every subscriber who finds these pop ups
objectionable send an email to Hallmark expressing their
disgust with this ad. Send email to Kristi Ernsting

If you hear from buyers who lost out on re-bidding for an item,
encourage them to also contact Hallmark. Many users have
been posting that they are boycotting Hallmark until the ad pop
up is removed from these pages, and they are emailing
Hallmark and letting them know.

The contest will last through 20 Dec, cutting a wide swath out of
the heart of the holiday selling season. The pop up ad does
have the ability to opt out by clicking on the very small print "I
Don't Want to Play" link on the lower right hand side of the pop
up. Unfortunately, those who don't save cookies on their system
might not be able to permanently opt out. Some have had
success with permanent opt out and others not, so test your
system prior to a critical bid.

Other ways to avoid this pop up are -
Download pop up killer software (this may cause the page to
hang as the pop up is preventing from downloading, depending
on your system and the software) A good programs to try is
http:// www.panicware.com

Use the Rockboss method (this can be used to control a variety
of invasive cookies and pages) -
1) While in MSIE, go to TOOLS on the tool bar. Click "Internet
Options" at the bottom of the Pull-Down list.
2) In the Internet Options, go to the SECURITY tab.
3) Click the RESTRICTED SITES icon.
3) Click the SITES button.
4)Add this URL in the box provided:
5) Click OK to close that screen.
6) Click OK again to close the first screen. You're done.
For AOL.
1) Go to SETTINGS.
2) Preferences
3) Choose Internet Properties (WWW).
4) Follow steps 2-6 above

This contest has an instant win and Hallmark Channel match &
win component. The Hallmark Channel component utilizes a
game code you get from your entry on ebaY, that you have to
match to the code on the TV program.   You can play up to four
game per day. For official rules go to -

If Hallmark receives enough email they will probably shut this
promotion down or at least get ebaY to modify how it is
implemented (one easy solution is to have the link to the contest
appear in the successful bid email notice). If ebaY won't do the
right and ethical thing, maybe the "community" can once again
force ebaY into the right action - even if for the wrong reason!

ebaY has implemented some programs to once again attempt
to attract sellers to their so far unsuccessful store program.
ebaY is now allowing a store listing to remain until it is
cancelled. Called GTC - good 'til cancelled - the listing will
automatically renew every 30 days until it is purchased or ended
by the seller. The listing costs 5 cents per 30 day period. For
more info go to -

ebaY is also now offering a 1 cent gallery option for all store
listings. This 1 cent fee applies no matter what duration store
listing you choose, so to the store listing fee, ranging from 5 to
20 cents depending on duration, add 1 cent for gallery.
For thread on subject go to -
For store fees go to - http://snipurl.com/de4

PayPal seller protection program problems. In a thread on 12
Nov about the requirements for the PayPal seller protections
program, a seller noted that if sellers combine shipping on
items, the PayPal program would not cover the seller. You need
a separate payment tracking number for each auction item, to be
covered by PayPal's seller protection policy. At 15:30 PT, Damon
Billian, paypal-@ebay.com, the PayPal board posting CS
rep confirmed that this was correct.   http://snipurl.com/de5

In practice sellers who participate in ebaY's holiday gift
promotion, use PayPal and ship packages to an address other
than that of the registered buyer, will also not have protection
under the seller protection program.

ebaY has changed the look of their boards etc, what ebaY calls
their "community area". A new portal page is at -

ebaY has tabbed the pages. Their "news" area includes the
general announcement board (was called the marketing
announcement board - MAB - now GAB), the system status
announcement board (SAB), and an ebaY newsletter. Many
users will find the Arial 12 point typeface hard to read.

The "talk" area includes the threaded boards, the scrolling
boards and a new area called the answer center which includes
arbitrarily chosen link to certain threaded boards and ebaY help
links, but does not include the number one sources of live help
on ebaY, the ebaY scrolling boards. After much loud user
protest, the typeface on the scrolling chat boards was returned
from the unreadable Arial to the readable Times New Roman 16

The "events" area contains a calendar tab, an event list tab and a
charity tab. The charity tab (TAG guesses they had no place else
to put it) incongruously includes one third of the page dedicated
to links to how to get started on ebaY but not a link to the ebaY
"community" giving board, once again demonstrating ebaY's

The "people" area contains the ebaY propaganda page (do as
we say not as we do) and a member spotlight page.

Here is a tool for finding ebaY category numbers

ebaY also has 24 pages with their category numbers -

ebaY has category updates scheduled for - Wed, 12/11/02; Tue,
1/21/03;Tue, 2/18/03;Tue, 3/18/03;Tue, 4/15/03; Tue, 5/13/03;
Tue, 6/10/03; Tue, 7/22/03; Tue, 8/19/03;Tue, 9/16/03; Tue,
10/14/03; Tue, 11/11/03; Tue, 12/9/03

ebaY's long hyped holiday promotion has started, and TAG
assumes there is someone with a cynical sense of humor at
ebaY's advertising firm. The promotion theme is "Do It eBay"
and TAG wonders if ebaY laughs every time they use the
acronym - DIE. ebaY users get to list and DIE - happy holidays!
(see BQOD III)

ebaY has changed the Category Portal pages to make them
more consistent across the site.   ebaY has also changed the
list of categories in the left navigation bar of the ebaY home

ebaY has a post on the GAB about protecting your personal

There has been a veritable flood of scam emails using ebaY and
PayPal as the front for the scam. The bottom line is that no
matter how legitimate an email looks, and no matter how real
the linked site looks, NEVER EVER EVER use a link in an email
to access your secure accounts containing critical information
(passwords, bank info, credit card info etc). If you feel the email
might be legitimate, go directly to the site in question through
your normal route/bookmark/link and check your account from

TAG has heard from folks with contacts inside the scammer
groups that these scam emails work, and the scammers are
able to regularly trick folks into giving them account information
which the scammers can then sell to others to exploit.

From ebaY's post - To be sure that you are signing into a
genuine ebaY Web site, look at the Address/Location area of
your browser. At an eBay.com sign-in or log-in page, the URL
(link) that appears in the Address/Location area of your browser
will begin with "http://cgi.ebay.com/". Please pay close attention
to all characters in the address, including the forward slash (/)
that follows "ebay.com". Even if the Address/Location includes
the word "ebay", it may not be a genuine eBay Web site. If you
receive or suspect you have received such an email, do not
respond to it or click the links. Immediately send a copy of it to

Be careful as the scammers will use a URL that says 'scgi' in
place of 'cgi' There are also many giveaways such as
misspellings in the email, or a link at the very bottom of the email
to an email service or site other than that of ebaY or PayPal (TAG
actually saw one that said spammer.com). You can also look at
the headers of the email to check the source of origin. When in
doubt send the email to sp-@ebay.com.

Ongoing Issues and Information
See the TAG website for miscellaneous ebaY info at -

ebaY CONTACT for ebaY, ebaY UK, Billpoint, Half.Com,
information including analog mail and email addresses, phone
numbers, regular and toll free, refund info, close account info,
and insider trading info etc can be found at

* * * * * * * * * *
Amazon , zShops and Marketplace - On 1 Nov Amazon
announced that they were expanding the Amazon Marketplace to
include new and used software ASINs. PC Games will now be
included under the Software & Computer Games category.
Amazon has updated the shipping rates and condition
requirements to participate. Full release of this change took
place on 5 Nov.

For info on the conditions for selling software ASINs, go to -

Amazon has changed the shipping charges on Marketplace
items. Shipping rate adjustments are only for the following
product categories:
* Consumer Electronics
* Camera & Photo
* Tools & Hardware
* Kitchen & Housewares
* Outdoor Living
* Computers

This will also change the corresponding shipping creditsfor
sellers. All other Marketplace shipping rates and credits will
remain unchanged. For more information about Amazon
Marketplace shipping go to -

Amazon live telephone customer service 16 hours a day
Auction/zShops/Marketplace have no customer support on
Toll-free in U.S. and Canada: (800)201-7575
Auction Pro phone number 1-877-251-0696
NEW! Amazon Contact Info Page on TAG website -

* * * * * * * * * *
Yahoo Auction/Stores/Classifieds (YA) - will be down for
maintenance on Fri 22 Nov for about 15 to 30 minutes between
02:00 PT - 02:30 PT.
Yahoo Listing Fees -

As of 15Sep02 Yahoo had 265,155 (-4720)
As of 19Sep02 Yahoo had 448,829 (+183,674)
As of 15Oct02 Yahoo had 268,023 (-180,806)
As of 7Nov02 Yahoo had 258,791 (-9232)
Yahoo Auction counts brought to you by
Ongoing Issues -

Yahoo Contact Information

Yahoo Customer Support form
email - auctions--@yahoo-inc.com

* * * * * * * * * *
UPS is raising rates. Ground shipping will go up 3.9% and the
surcharge for packages going to a home will increase 5 cents a
package. New rates go into effect 6 Jan 2003

Have any information for us? email us at
TAG Subscribers often contribute information reported on in
TAGnotes. Visit their auctions or websites.
TAGassist Contributors

reston_ray http://snurl.com/8ra







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