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TAGnotes Fri 29 Nov 2002 Vol 4 Number 54 Issue 436

The Auction Guild Notes Fri 29 Nov 2002 Part II

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The TAGnotes archive is available in a searchable format at     
Once again there is way to much information for one issue so
PART III will follow tomorrow SAT 30 Nov
*** WARNING *** There has been an absolute epidemic of
SCAM emails trying to get you to an ebaY or PayPal look alike
site to steal your personal information and identity. The basic
rule is, no matter how legitimate an email looks NEVER go to a
site to update account information from a link in an email. That
bears repeating - NEVER go to a site to update account
information from a link in an email. If you think the email is
legitimate, go directly to the site from your normal links (NOT the
one provided in the email) and update info directly on the site in
question if necessary. If you follow this simple rule and pass it
on to your friends, family and associates, this method of stealing
identities and accounts will fail. The added step of changing
your passwords and making that password a nonsense word or
a combo of letters and numbers, will protect you from the
majority of identity theft and account hijacking.
Articles, "What’s real, what’s a scam? eBay users wondering"
PLEASE NOTE - Starting in Jan 2003 we would like to move the
ebaY outage details out of TAGnotes and on to the TAG website
on a permanent basis. We will try to provide a one liner for each
day, in the newsletter. As ebaY gets more and more unstable,
the ebaY outages are so frequent and so widespread that they
are taking over all the room we have in TAGnotes. If you have
any input on this please email us at ta-@theauctionguild.com

** Save 5 Cent Store Listing Fee Days 3-5 December **
ebaY Outages 1 - 19 November 2002 on the TAG website at -

ebaY - On 20 Nov at 07:00:09 PT users trying to use their My
ebaY pages received error messages when trying to access the
second page of their information. At 07:22:13 PT the link to view
more than 800 items was reported gone from My ebaY.   At
07:25:48 PT the "next" stopped working, then the link to view "all"
items disappeared. ebaY was obviously jacking with the code.
My ebaY functions continued to deteriorate. At 12:28:33 PT users
reported receiving error messages when trying to sign in
including a new one saying, "%1 is not a valid Windows NT
application" along with, "The page cannot be displayed" and
"502 Connection Hangup". These problems continued until
12:55:17 PT. At 12:55:54 PT buyers reported that their emails to
sellers were not going through, nor were they getting a copy of
the email. At 14:01:27 PT buyers reported search was not
working with items in the everything else category showing as
unavailable and other searches returning arbitrary results with
the items out of sequence. At 16:20:36 PT users reported that
the ebaY SPAM server partners Mediaplex and Equifax, had
expired certificates causing ebaY systems to become
inaccessible, being blocked by the invalid certificates. At
18:37:48 PT more reports of search problems were posted with
blank pages coming up on search results. At 21:03:25 PT ebaY
posted that users could not access ebaY pages including the
ebaY home page, from 20:18 PT to 20:47 PT. At 21:35:20 PT a
seller posted a work around for the SA Pro problem with not
creating sales records for auction listings (mainly store items).
The recommended solution was for users to upgrade to the
latest version of the program, reset the refresh date, then change
the "Num Sold" to zero. When the listings are refreshed, the
program should create sales records.

On 21 Nov at 07:28:10 PT, ebaY reported that ebaY Billpoint
payments system was down from 06:37 PT to 07:09 PT
preventing buyers from making payments. At 11:28:40 PT, users
reported more expired Mediaplex and Equifax certificates were
causing site access problems.   One workaround is to add
altfarm mediaplex to your Restricted sites list disallowing them
access to your computer. At 18:37:49 PT, ebaY posted that
the ability to list items in the Timeshares category was down.
This was not fixed until 23 Nov.

On 22 Nov, ebaY took the ebaY system and ebaY payments
down from approx 00:50:15 PT to 03:13:29 PT for maintenance.
At 10:31:56 PT, users reported having problems logging on to
PayPal. These problems were intermittent and sporadic, with
some users having access and others not. Buyers reported
search problems at 11:23:22 PT with the having to type what they
are searching for twice, once in the first regular search box and
then again when a second page comes up where you have to
type in your search again. At 11:38:40 PT, sellers reported
getting " the server name was invalid" messages whilst trying to
list with Turbo Lister. At 11:55:23 PT a seller posted a
workaround for the Turbo Lister problem, advising to click on the
"gift" button even when appears to be checked 'no', click on that
'no' again seems to fix this latest ebaY coding glitch. At 12:03:38
PT, more users reported having problems accessing PayPal. At
21:37:59 PT a buyer reported getting a PayPal auction finder
notice that they had won an auction, so paid for the item.   Further
checking revealed the auction still had almost two days to go. At
22:08:22 PT, users received error messages whilst trying to
have PayPal do automatic logo insertions.   

On 23 Nov at 01:51:38 PT ebaY posted that they had fixed the
Timeshare category problem. In an ebaYesque posting ebaY
said the "Timeshares category was temporarily unavailable."
This temporary outage lasted approx 32 hours and demonstrates what ebaY
considers "temporary".   At 07:15:55 PT
users continued to receive invalid altfarm.mediaplex SPAM, Inc.,
expired security certificates. At 07:44:49 PT user observed that
the ongoing search problems were increasing, with search
ability on the site continuing to deteriorate. At 12:28:09 PT users
reported having problems with the main search page. Using it
for search would send the buyer to a more limiting search. At
16:06:15 PT, users reported problems accessing ebaY with
Netscape 4.78 or 7.0.   Attempts to sign in yielded messages
saying, "The browser you're using is rejecting cookies." when in
fact they were enabled.   Users posted more PayPal log in
problems at 18:57:26 PT. Users posted that there were
incompatibility problems with the AT&T ISPs and PayPal that
PayPal was aware of, though problems were reported by users
of other ISP's. At 19:49:29 PT ebaY reported that the ability to
view auction listings was down. At 19:54:13 PT buyers reported
they could not pay for their purchases using PayPal.   At 19:59:12
PT buyers reported widespread problems trying to access
auctions. Clicking on an auction would return a, "The page
cannot be displayed The page you are looking for is currently
unavailable." message.   Continued tries to open the same item
would eventually open the item. This usually indicates that
several of ebaY's servers are down. At 20:13:56 PT users
reported that toy category auctions were inaccessible. At
20:23:06 PT users continued to report auctions inaccessible. At
20:30:15 PT more sellers reported problems with adding PayPal
logos to their auctions and that auctions were opening very
slowly or not at all. At 20:46:34 PT ebaY posted that the ability to
view auction listings was down from 19:08 PT to 20:38 PT.   At
21:09:13 PT ebaY posted that the ability to view auction listings
was down and at 22:26:57 PT ebaY reported that the ability to
view auction listings was down from 21:03 PT to 21:22 PT.   
Since this hard outage (by ebaY's definition of an outage) lasted
for over two hours, ebaY, by their own rules should have issued
refunds and auction extensions. ebaY did neither, once again
violating the user agreement. All sellers who had auctions
impacted by this outage should request refunds of listing and
final value fees from ebaY.

On 24 Nov at 03:11:52 PT a user trying to revise an auction
received a message saying, "your listing is scheduled to end
during our downtime' message" though the auction was
scheduled to end on Sunday, not during scheduled maintenance
on Friday. At 09:29:17 PT users reported the Hallmark pop-up
ad prevented them from re-bidding.   Search was also not
working properly with results of 48 pages only showing items on
the first page with all subsequent pages blank.   At 11:23:17 PT
users reported the ebaY email system was down, returning
messages saying , "Warning: Unable to send your question(s)
Unfortunately, we were unable to send your question(s) to the
eBay user via email." At 11:26:05 PT ebaY posted that ebaY
Billpoint payments was down from 10:47 PT to 11:20 PT. At
12:18:57 PT users reported 404 errors whilst trying to access
many site functions such as search and auctions.   Users also
reported problems accessing PayPal. At 12:36:26 PT more
users reported not being able to access PayPal. At 12:50:06 PT
ebaY posted that access to auction item listings was down from
11:00 PT to 12:45 PT. At 13:08:55 PT buyers reported they could
not get in to auction listings to bid. A steady stream of these
auction item access reports continued non stop through
13:37:17 PT when ebaY reported that the ability to view auction
listings was down.   At 13:42:09 PT some buyers were able to
get to auctions if they searched by auction number. At 13:44:13
PT users reported that search was down. At 13:57:19 PT search
returned "Page cannot be displayed" messages. At 13:59:18 PT
sellers reported Mister Lister was down. At 14:20:37 PT ebaY
reported that site emails, including the end of auction notices,
were not going out in a timely manner. At 14:23:19 PT users
received site wide messages saying, "The page you are looking
for is currently unavailable." At 14:36:58 PT sellers reported not
receiving payment messages from PayPal.   At 14:45:53 PT
buyers could still not access auction listings. At 15:04:40 PT
cla-@ebay.com posted "Hi folks, They are working on getting
things straightened out. If you get errors when trying to view item
pages, please refresh - the errors are intermittent so a retry
should get you through." even though most users would not
know to do this, and it did not necessarily work even after many
attempts.   At 15:15:45 PT ebaY reported that attempts at viewing
an item description page were returning an error message from
12:57 PT to 14:30 PT. At 15:17:05 PT users reported that search
was not working so that a search for model trains returned
lexmark printers.   At 15:24:00 PT ebaY posted that Mister Lister
had been down but was working again.   At 15:49:32 PT and
15:53:14 PT sellers continued to report that their auctions were
not accessible and retuning 404 errors. If the user persisted
they might get the auction to open after 3 or 4 tries.   At 15:54:24
PT buyers reported that basic search was not working properly,
returning error messages and a second submission screen. At
16:22:28 PT ebaY again acknowledged that the ability to access
auction listings was down from 15:49 PT to 16:10 PT. This time
the site was not working for 4 hours (12:18:57 to 16:10). At
16:37:25 PT users again reported access problems receiving
"502 Connection failed: Web Site Not Responding The web site
you have requested may be experiencing technical difficulties
due to a busy or broken server." messages. This was still
happening at 16:47:16 PT with cgi3 problems reported also,
preventing log in and chat board access. The site appeared to
come back at 16:57:51 PT and back down again at 17:19:18 PT
with auctions once again inaccessible. At 17:38:09 PT ebaY
reported that users were having problems accessing PayPal
and that this appears to be limited to certain ISPs. ebaY claimed
that access had been restored to all users. Users reported
more access problems to cgi3 at 17:56:14 and 17:59:19 PT. At
18:02:33 PT users once again reported widespread access
problems and had to use ebaY Canada and ebaY Australia to
access the US site. At 18:27:28 PT access to auctions was
down again returning, "The page cannot be displayed The page
you are looking for is currently unavailable. The Web site might
be experiencing technical difficulties, or you may need to adjust
your browser settings." messages. At 18:38:34 PT ebaY
reported that the site was down once again from 15:55 PT to
18:05 PT. This brought the days outage time up to 6 hours, with
ebaY once again minimizing the problems, lying about the extent
of the outages and violating their user agreement by not
providing automatic refunds and auction extensions. Sellers
with auctions affected by this outage should request refunds of
listing and final value fees. At 20:25:08 PT sellers reported they
were not receiving end of auction notices.

25 Nov at 05:54:17 PT users reported that search was not
working properly. At 07:20:31 PT the search problems
continued with the entry on the search box taking the user to
another search page where the search parameters had to be
reentered. At 12:11:09 PT users noted that bid prices were not
being updated on the search results pages. Sellers reported
that My ebaY was not working and had sold items showing in the
unsold section. PayPal's auction finder was also telling buyers
to pay for items whose auctions were still running. At 16:32:22
PT some users were still reporting no being able to log into
PayPal. At 16:33:24 PT ebaY posted that the saved searches
emails had a non functioning opt out link. ebaY said the
resolution might take several days. Users could opt out of the
emails from the My ebaY page. At 17:36:59 PT users reported
having trouble updating Turbo Lister (TL). Sellers received
messages that "1608:Unable to create install driver instance-
return cod-2147467262" At 17:42:08 PT other sellers reported
that attempts to update TL returned a message saying "Network
problems are preventing turbo lister from communicating with
ebay". At 18:29:58 PT sellers reported that My ebaY was
showing scrambled information completely different than the
actually status of the items listed.   At 18:51:53 PT a seller
reported their gallery featured item, listed several days previous,
was not showing up as featured though they were charged for it.
At 19:55:49 PT ebaY posted that they were going to have to take
PayPal down for emergency maintenance from 23:00 PT and
23:45 PT. At 21:00:48 PT sellers continued to report inaccurate
information in My ebaY with sold items appearing in the unsold
section and no end of auction notices.

On 26 Nov at 07:01:17 PT users warned that ebaY had once
again reset their preferences in My ebaY, so that ebaY opted the
seller in for ebaY iPix picture services, even though the seller did
not use ebaY iPix pic services. Other users reported that ebaY
had also changed their marketing preferences. All users should
check their preference selections and make sure they are set in
accordance with the users wishes and not ebaY's. At 07:43:23
PT users reported ebaY's email system was down, and when
trying to send messages received, "Warning: Unable to send
your question(s) and forward a copy (Bcc) of your message.
Unfortunately, we were unable to send your question(s) to the
eBay user via email nor were we able to forward a copy to you.
You may both be experiencing problems receiving email at this
time."   Users also reported they were not receiving ebaY or
PayPal notifications. At 10:34:07 PT sellers posted that they
were having problems with Mister Lister. At 11:59:22 PT sellers
reported that the end of auction emails from ebaY were showing
up with garbled HTML code. Sellers reported that ebaY was also
randomly deleting independently hosted images. The site
remained fairly stable for the rest of the day.

ebaY did not do maintenance on Fri 29 Nov. ebaY will next take
the site down for maintenance on 6 Dec. If you scheduled any
listings to end between 01:00 PT and 03:00 PT on 6 Dec, these
items will end whilst ebaY is down. Be careful.

TAG STRONGLY recommends that, if a seller feels that any of
the ebaY outages and glitches appears to have negatively
impacted the sale of any of their auctions or listings of any type,
request refunds. Don't pay for service if you don't receive it.

TO REQUEST REFUNDS from ebaY go to
Don't take NO for an answer, keep requesting until you get them.
If you don't get your refunds complain to the BBB Online at
And also file a complaint with the FTC

Pink Quote of the Day I - In a conversation on 18 Nov about the
various problems with ebaY programs gia-@ebay.com said at
14:21:36 PT, "... I don't remember saying that pop-ups did make
eBay better or getting rid of Mister Lister would make eBay better
either." TAG wonders why if these things don't make ebaY
"better" why is ebaY doing them?

Pink Quote of the Day II - In a conversation about all the
problems, particularly with the Hallmark pop-up Spam,
ka-@ebay.com said on 20 Nov at 10:18:19 PT, ... I actually
dropped in to let you all know that we are attempting to resolve
some of the problems brought up here the other night. The
Pop-up will be moved so that it won't interfere with the ability to
see the link to "bid again" and once you choose not to play you
will be opted out, even if you dump your cookies. :) ........Katy"
TAG sees this seeming concession as not addressing the
flagrant violation of ebaY's promise to never put advertising on a
sellers paid for pages, nor does it fix the problem with the
pop-up preventing a buyer from making last minutes bids. Not
even the beginning of a good solution, ebaY. TAG continues to
encourage everyone to email Hallmark, and tell them what
damage their pop-up ad is doing to ebaY sellers, buyers and to
Hallmarks reputation.

Pink Quote of the Day III - In a thread about the Motorcycle
category changes entitled "HEADS UP! We hear you..."      
ew-@ebay.com posted at 10:20 PT on 20 Nov, "I don't have any
answers where the change proposal came from, and it hit me
from left feild just like it did you people. I know many of you are
upset, and I have read your posts on the various threads. All I
can tell you right now is they are looking at what you people are
saying, and considering a change. ~Ewan~" It looks to TAG as if
ebaY once again has left their pinks holding the bag whilst ebaY
insiders cash out billions in stock options and laugh all the way
to the bank. So much for the community INSIDE ebaY!

Board Quote of the Day I - Posted by marginally*marginal on 16
Nov at 12:14:19 PT, "heh, health insurance from the same team
that brought you Billpoint, Great Collections, Butterfields, and
eBay Japan.... One thing you CAN say: they've got *experience*
with the sick and dying..." View his website at -

Board Quote of the Day II - Posted by markiver on 19 Nov at
01:58:55 PT said, "Every issue has been raised. From unhappy
defaults to adware permeation, from search result layout to
sellform micromanagement, feature feature rollout timing, user
co-isolation, compartmentalization, spam, lame cookie dump
defaults, and the list just keeps on growing. Now the chat rooms
arent safe from the mad painter. When will ebay halt it's
seemingly endless experimentation of a forum that dominated
the auction scene on the internet? When the buyers can't find
squat, the sellers can't make a nickle and ebay is reduced to a
cyber strip mall full of dollar stores? No ... It wasn't the posters
who looked foolish. But that's JMHO."

Board Quote of the Day III - In a thread on the Motorcycle board in
reference to the changes in the Motorcycle categories titled,
"Positive Things That Have Happened This Month Do To EBAY
MOTORS Changes" posted by mountain_motorsports at 05:24
PT on 26 Nov, "Well I have heard a lot of complaints about all
this, and I just wanted to share a few of the good things that have
come about due to the way EBAY has fixed things. For one my
UPS bill is almost non existent this month. My EBAYs fees that
normally run $200-$300 a month will be only $50 or so. That's
the least they have ever been since I started on ebay 2 years
ago. I do not have to spend countless hours at the PC answering
emails, listing and relisting, editing photos, and coming up with
all the data my items descriptions required. Not to mention all
the time I save not having to box up item after item, and the time I
save since I don't need to constantly look for/buy more packing
materials. Also I have spent nearly nothing this month on
batteries for my digital camera. Other added benefits, now I have
had time to actually start on my GL1200 Tryke project. What else
am I going to do with all my spare time? I do not really know, but
one thing for sure, it won't be spent listing things on EBAY
MOTORS, not until they fix IT..."

*** Save the 5 Cent Store Listing Fee Days 3-5 December ***
ebaY will refund the listing fee on all store items up to a 120 day
period, listed between Tuesday, 3 Dec at 00:00:01 PT (12:00 AM
plus one second on 3 Dec) and 23:59:59 PT on Thursday, 5 Dec
(11:59 PM plus 59 seconds). During this period, all insertion
fees for Store Inventory Items (previously Store Fixed Price) will
be $0.00. If you list in Good Until Closed (sold or stopped by
seller) GTC (not yet available), the first 30 day duration will be
free, but you will be charged the current standard GTC listing
charge beginning the next 30-day cycle.

Excluded from this promotion are - Regular auction-style listings,
Fixed Price listings, ebaY Motors, Premier, Real Estate,
International, and Professional Services listings.
All other fees (auction-style listing fees, "Buy It Now" feature fee,
featured plus, highlight, bold, gallery for auction-style listings,
gallery featured) will still be charged. The monthly store
subscription fee still applies

On 15 Nov ebaY posted changes to ebaY Motors: Parts &
Accessories. By 5 AM PT buyers were filling the boards with
complaints that continue almost non stop, about the changes
made to the Motorcycle categories. These changes appear to
have caused many problems for buyers searching for parts
cutting the heart out of the holiday selling season and gutting
bids and sales for the Motorcycle sellers and sellers of vintage
and antique motor parts.

As usual ebaY made these changes claiming that they were
wanted by the "community", and as usual ebaY did not consult
the active sellers or buyers before making these changes. The
only folks ebaY consults about category changes are the
marketing folks who help ebaY maximize their fees. The truth as
TAG sees it is that ebaY makes such changes and increases
the subcategories for one reason only - to make it HARDER to
search so sellers are FORCED into listing in multiple categories
which increases ebaY's take on each sale. TAG would not be
surprised to see ebaY increase the number of categories you
can list in from two to four, or maybe even more. The harder it is
for a buyer to find an item, the fewer sales are made, the more
likely a seller will have to relist an item. Listing fees are the
ebaY cash cow and listing numbers impress stock holders. ebaY does not
care about sellers or buyers except as a commodity to exploit, and would
be no more likely to actually listen to them than make ebaY a non profit
"community" corporation.

If sellers are REALLY interested in doing something about this
exploitation, they should email everyone who posted in the
motorcycle threads, everyone they know who sells Motorcycle
parts, and move as a group to another site. If these sellers can
turn their anger and frustration with ebaY into positive action, they
can make a permanent change that will not only make their
future more secure, but get ebaY's attention, that ebaY can not
treat sellers and buyers with cavalier indifference, nor exploit
them and destroy their businesses with impunity.

The sellers need to remember that buyers go where the sellers
are. The motorcycle community, even more that other groups,
appear to interact more tightly than other groups, so they have a
unique opportunity to really do something as a community. If
they can all work together they can really have a huge impact. All
the sellers can email all their past customers and let them know
the new sites they are listing on and why. Sellers can offer
incentives to make a purchase on the sites they have moved to.
Two sites we highly recommend are sellyouritem.com (an
auction site) and iOffer.com (a negotiation site - more like a
swap meet) and would wager that both sites would bend over
backwards to accommodate motorcycle part sellers. Both sites
have tools to easily import your items from ebaY with just a few

After five days of boards filled with seller outrage and buyer
frustration, ebaY decided to take a new look at the categories,
and made a pretence of "consulting the community". ebaY even
went as far as calling the folks ebaY perceived as the "leaders"
in the "community" and attempted to pull their fangs, trying the
normal ebaY fascist methods. These methods consist of
making separations between the perceived leaders and the
general public, making an elite out of the vocal "leaders", making
them feel they are special, have ebaY's ear, and are able to
influence ebaY's decisions.   These people get their own ebaY
contact and are asked to call the contact first before posting on
the boards to see if the contact can "solve" the sellers issue.
ebaY pretends they are making concessions and listening.
Usually. if ebaY can't quickly defuse the situation, ebaY will try
to fly these people out to ebaY, wine and dine them and take them to
meet the ebaY big shots. ebaY has successfully used these methods in
the past.

ebaY announced they were making a small concession to the
Motorcycle sellers, and would add back the country main
headers, but insisted on having 23 subcategories under each
country.   The 23 subcategories were vociferously objected to by
the sellers and buyers as being much to convoluted and
unnecessarily complex, confusing and time consuming.
Changes that ebaY promises will be done in the first week of
Dec can be viewed at -   

Motorcycle threads -
These are good reading and those who have been involved in
past ebaY sheep slaughters will recognize the methods. Those
who have so far escaped unscathed, read and be warned and
DIVERSIFY where and how you sell, as it is just a matter of time
before you become ebaY's next victim.

Please note - More ebaY info and other site info to follow Sat, in
Part III
Have any information for us? email us at
TAG Subscribers often contribute information reported on in
TAGnotes. Visit their auctions or websites.
TAGassist Contributors








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