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TAGnotes Sat 12 Oct 2002 Vol 4 Number 49 Issue 431

The Auction Guild Notes Sat 12 Oct 2002 PART II
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This issue brought to you by the preceding subscriber ads,
supporting TAG through their advertising dollars. Please support
them, by clicking on or copy/pasting their links and buying their
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6000 subscribers (this number was incorrect in the last issue)
The TAGnotes archive is available in a searchable format at     
More info about TAG is on our website at
We again apologize for the backlog in TAGnotes. We will have
one more issue coming - Part III - and then we will once again
be caught up. We hope TAGnotes will be able to get back to its
normal irregular schedule in the following weeks.

ebaY - On 1 Oct at 12:59:03 PT users reported not being able to
log in. A pop up screen would appear telling the user their
password was invalid and giving them a four digit code to enter.
At 21:19:36 PT sellers reporting that the revise feature was not

On 2 Oct at 04:49:27 PT users reported that the second chance
feature disappeared from sellers lists. At 19:04:04 PT sellers
again reported problems uploading Turbo Lister.

On 3 Oct at 05:25:59 PT users reported ebaY pages were
downloading very slowly. At 05:49:40 PT more users reported
page loads were very slow or timing out. My ebaY was working,
but auction pages would not open, so no bidding was possible.
Search was not working either. The site was working again at
06:14:53 PT. At 17:42:26 PT ebaY posted that sellers reported
that they were receiving invoices stating that their ebaY account
was past due when it was, in fact, current.   This was caused by
an ebaY problem and sellers whose accounts were current
should disregard the notice.

ebaY took the ebaY and ebaY Billpoint system down for
maintenance from approx 00:55:30 PT to 03:13:30 PT on Fri 4
Oct. The ebaY discussion and help boards were down for
maintenance during the same time period. This included the US,
UK, Australian, and Canadian Discussion Boards. At 08:18:53
PT users reported that search was not working, with the number
7 scrolling thru the item search for number box. At 08:19:17 PT
accessing ebaY pages yielded document contains no data
messages. At 08:21:14 PT users reported that title search was
not working, with commonly appearing items returning no
results. Completed search returned the normally expected
results and going from completed to active would finally bring up
the expected results. At 18:46:07 PT sellers reported the Edit
Price/Quantity on store feature was not working on items listed
with Turbo Lister. Sellers had to close and relist the item to fix
the quantity.

On 6 Oct sellers reported hearing PayPal that the PayPal credit
card would now carry an interest rate on unpaid balances rate of
28.99% on 1 Nov, or prime rate + 24.24%. Users reported ebaY
down at 19:07:16 PT. At 19:09:25 PT sellers received error
messages. At 19:13:07 PT users reported search and the ability
to bid was down. The site was up at 19:19:47 PT and back down
at 19:20:29 PT. At 19:22:10 PT users reported "page not found"
messages when trying to access the site. At 19:24:32 PT users
trying to access My ebaY or auction pages received page not
found messages. The site was back up at 19:29:45 PT. At
19:46:33 PT ebaY posted that between 19:08 PT and 19:25 PT,
bidder and seller search, registration and the Sell Your Item form
were down.

On 7 Oct at 05:42:38 PT some users reported they were no
longer getting PayPal payment notices. Others were getting
them.   At 13:27:17 PT search by seller was down returning page
not found messages. At 13:48:11 PT Seller Search was still
down. At 14:11:30 PT ebaY reported that searches with multiple
keywords or searches with terms excluded, were down from
13:40 PT to 14:02 PT. At 14:45:50 PT ebaY posted that seller
search from the advanced search page was down from 13:24 PT
to 14:43 PT. At 14:55:17 PT users reported that seller search
was still down. Seller search was down until 15:04:23.

On 8 Oct at 13:32:58 PT sellers reported that the scheduling
feature was showing up again on the listing form, but that it was
broken, returning input errors. At 19:16:15 PT sellers reported
SYI 2.0 was retuning blank pages. At 19:33:02 PT users
reported they could not log in and getting a message saying the
login info is not correct, then asking for the 4 digit number
displayed. At 20:07:21 PT the relist feature was not working. At
21:05:19 PT sellers reported listing was not working because
when trying to list they would get a title Line too long message
even though the title was not over 45 characters.

On 9 Oct at 11:46:55 PT users trying to access PayPal received a
message saying "An error has occurred. Because we are
currently experiencing heavy traffic to our site, we were unable to
complete your request. Try clicking the 'Refresh' button on your
browser. If you are still unable to access the site, please try
again later. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause
and appreciate your patience. Error 3004".   At 12:08:03 PT more
users reported PayPal down. PayPal was back at 12:22:39 PT.
At 19:53:09 PT users reported ebaY down as of 19:43:30. At
20:10:34 PT users reported key word search was intermittently
down.   At 22:27:41 PT ebaY posted that clicking on another
member's User ID in My ebaY returned an error message stating
that the member is not registered with ebaY. This message was
incorrect. At 23:37:30 PT users again reported PayPal down,
receiving a message saying "The PayPal website is temporarily
unavailable due to maintenance. It will be available again at
approximately 2:30 AM Pacific Time. We apologize for any

On 10 Oct at 00:32:38 PT users reported they could not log in
receiving "not a registered user" messages. Using the "view
seller's other items" link yielded "document contains no data"
messages. At 03:24:28 PT users reported the site not working,
At 03:31:33 PT users reported sellers lists were bringing up
blank pages. This was true for all links that led to seller's lists.

At 04:09:16 PT users reported that PayPal had extended its down
time until 07:30 PT. At 04:14:33 PT the reports about sellers lists
coming up blank continued.    At 04:21:00 PT users said they
could get to auctions through search, but not through sellers
lists.   At 05:22:59 PT sellers reported that counter pages were
not coming up. probably due to the inability to access ebaY
pages. All sellers' pages were still reported blank at 06:07:21
PT no matter what method was used to try to reach them. At
06:22:15 PT users reported search was not working.   The blank
seller pages remained broken until 06:29:22 PT when they came
back up briefly and went back down again. At 06:47:06 PT ebaY posted
that clicking on another member's User ID in My ebaY returns an error
message stating that the member is not registered with ebaY. This
message is incorrect. At 07:04:37 PT users reported that bookmarked
pages were also not working also yielding blank pages. At 07:09:08 PT
users reported receiving input data errors and white pages when trying
to post on the chat boards.   At 07:16:28 PT users reported more search
problems along with a pop-up on the relist page slowing thingsdown.
Sellers search continued completely non functional from all point of
access/ At 07:48:59 PT attempts to access My ebaY yielded input error
messages. At 07:53:27 PT users could not list or check auctions or get
to others peoples auctions to buy. At08:03:42 PT sellers search came up
briefly again but went back down at 08:08:04 PT. Users trying to
refresh pages on ebaY also got blank pages. At 08:40:43 PT ebaY posted,
" ***My eBay*** In the past twelve hours, some members have reported
intermittent difficulties with My eBay, including the inability to sign
in, blank pages and error messages when attempting to access information
about transaction partners. We are aware of this issue, and our
engineers are working diligently to resolve it. We apologize for the
delay in communication of this issue, and thank you for your patience
while we work to restore full access to My eBay for all members.
Regards, eBay".   This post was replaced at 10:07:58 PT by a message
from ebaY saying the problem with My ebaY was fixed, with no mention of
the 13+ hour outage or the complete meltdown of seller search along with
all the other intermittent problems on the site. At 11:35:47 PT users
reported "input error" messages across the site when trying to access
ebaY. At 12:23:26 PT users reported getting Input Errors and 404 Errors
everywhere on ebaY. At 15:04:27 PT users reported that everything was
still broken. At 15:24:45 PT ebaY announced that the ability to view or
leave Feedback was down. At 15:25:55 PT users received function
unavailable messages across the site. At 15:59:50 PT ebaY posted that
the feedback system was down from 15:16 PT to 15:48 PT. At 16:12:30 PT
users reported that advanced search was not working and that using the
asterisk wild card symbol and parenthesis were causing illogical and
varied search results, demonstrating the lack of function of the search
system.   At 16:15:56 PT users reported relist was down. At 16:17:36 PT
users reported that search was not working. At 16:21:38 PT users once
again reported being unable to log in to My ebaY receiving messages that
they were not accepting cookies, which was not true.   At 16:33:21 PT
more users reported they could not relist items listed with SYI2.0, with
these problems continuing through 18:56:40 PT. Sellers using the old
listing form were not having problems with their relists.

TAG STRONGLY recommends that, if a seller feels that any of
the ebaY outages and glitches appears to have negatively
impacted the sale of any of their auctions or listings of any type,
request refunds. Don't pay for service if you don't receive it.

TO REQUEST REFUNDS from ebaY go to
Don't take NO for an answer, keep requesting until you get them.
If you don't get your refunds complain to the BBB Online at
And also file a complaint with the FTC

Pink Quote of the Day - In Meg's announcement on the ebaY MAB
on 3 Oct 02, Meg@ebaY said, "I am very happy to announce that
eBay's acquisition of PayPal is complete. We are now working
together with a common goal: to help buyers and sellers trade
online." In TAG's opinion the only goal accomplished by this
buyout, is the one ebaY makes by kicking the seller through the
goal posts, as the sellers are sure to be the ones to pay and
suffer for this acquisition. How this will "help" anyone but ebaY's
insiders remains to be seen. It is interesting that despite ebaY's
promising up and down that they are going to let PayPal run as
an independent company and not interfere with what is not
broke, the FIRST thing that happened was the PayPal CEO
resigned and ebaY promptly put an ebaY insider in his place.
Since ebaY does not have a clue about how to run PayPal, (if
they did, Billpoint would not have been such an abject failure)
this is not a move that should give anyone a feeling of
confidence. TAG knows that ebaY will just not be able to keep
their fingers out of PayPal, and we give them 18 months to
destroy the critical mass advantage they now have. C2it and
PayDirect, here is your opportunity.

Board Quote of the Day I - In a conversation about ebaY's ability
to function marginally*marginal said on 4 Oct at 10:54:50 PT, "...
it's the eBay Way. Fix it until it breaks, and then improve it until
it's unusable."

BQOD II - Posted by webnet on 6 Oct at 09:50:59 PT, "It used to
be I'd have $2000 of items listed and by Sunday I'd have nearly
$1000 in sales. Well after all the new features were added to
help me, my wife had to go back to work, my sales dropped to
less than %25 of what they used to be and today on Sunday
morning I'm trying to live on $150 in sales while I look at the
Sunday paper. And ebay allows the deadbeats to march on. YES

BQOD III - when asked about the experiences of long time ebaY
sellers, marginal*antics said on 9 Oct at 17:10:47 PT, "... My
buyers have been GREAT! And the Sellers I've purchased from
too. I think the only negative experiences are with *eBay*....the
constant changes have made it very hard for a lot of Sellers. They
change things......well....just because they can!"

To keep using the OLD one page listing forms use these links
and download these to your desktop. We do not know but
believe that you will be able to continue using these forms even
after ebaY removes all links to these forms from ebaY at the end
of the year. Also see instructions on how to do this on the TAG
website at - List on ebaY the Old way -


Old Listing Page Links -

Categories and listing all on one page - http://snurl.com/6vp

If you have HTML skills, you can go on and modify the code on
any of these forms to customize them for your own use.

ebaY has backed off on their promise of Health Insurance for all
power sellers by fall.

As TAG said at the time, ebaY did not understand what they were
promising, nor if they could deliver. As it turns out they can't.
ebaY claims they will have a program in place by January, but
that remains to be seen. ebaY will probably have to negotiate
with companies regionally, to provide a program with national
reach. TAG will still be surprised if ebaY is able to provide a plan
that is less expensive than the ones any small business person
can now purchase through their local Chamber of Commerce, or
other organization, such as the AARP. A plan through a local
Chamber is, at least, not tied to meeting ebaY's sales targets,
something that could be seriously compromised by an illness or
injury on the part of a seller or a family member. ebaY has still
not revealed any information on how the program will work, once
they find a company or companies that will go along with them.
Sellers should check with several organizations, so at least they
know what the going rates are, so have a basis of comparison,
when and if ebaY comes up with a plan.

ebaY TV has once again gone down the tubes. ebaY has been
making press releases over their much hyped TV programs for
three years, with not a single show yet aired. Another all talk and
no action program brought to you by ebaY.

TAG thinks ebaY should ditch all these extra curricular activities
and give their paying customers a site that is reliable and works
efficiently, a selling form that is clean, simple to use, and on one
page, and a search engine that is actually functional.

Kruse International (carsonline) joins ebaY's failures with ebaY
Japan, Butterfields, Great Collections, eStamp, iEscrow,
Billpoint, eppraisel, and a string of ebaY partners. TAG predicts
that Square Trade is on its way out and that Half.Com will be
lucky to survive the year. (Unless the deals TAG believes ebaY is
making with Yahoo, causing Yahoo to shut out P to P sellers
from their Used Goods Shopping, allows Half to hang on a little
longer) . As far as TAG can tell, there has yet to be a single
company that has formed a direct partnership with ebaY and
actually benefited from it (other than the select few insiders
getting to cash out billions in stock). ebaY appears to be setting
a record in ruining partners, and desiccating companies, while
reaping little or no benefit itself. The lucky companies have
managed to separate from ebaY soon enough to leave with
enough juice left to allow them to remain in business, and return
to their pre-ebaY success.
Article on Kruse    http://news.com.com/2100-1017-960571.html

ebaY has launched a site they are calling ebaY Sports. The site
brings together the four main pieces of the ebaY sports
business - memorabilia, event tickets and experiences, licensed
merchandise and sporting goods at www.ebaysports.com.

The current category structure will remain the same. TAG hopes
this is a lesson ebaY learned and does not forget from the ebaY
Motors fiasco. Buyers can avoid ebaY core altogether if they so
desire by going directly to the sports link. Once there, ebaY firmly
plants a mediaplex cookie that last until 2009. It took TAG 55
refusals of the cookies ebaY tries to plant, to actually get to the

ebaY has added a feature that allows sellers to schedule
auction listings using SYI2.0. This feature costs 10 cents for
every listing scheduled. The seller can select when the auction
enters the indexing queue (which can take anywhere from 4
hours to 48 hours) up to 3 weeks in advance.

Depending how many auctions you list, there are many third
party services that offer a scheduling function as part of their
service. This would be less expensive than what is in TAG's
opinion a good feature, but one that ebaY has way overpriced.
TAG has also heard from users that this function does not work
with Apple Computers. There have also been many glitches
reported by sellers, where they pay for the feature, but it does not
work. Ask for refunds where the item does not schedule as

For more information about listing scheduling, go to -

October 2002 Phillip Bloch article on fashion can be found at -
The article also discusses the importance of Breast Cancer

ebaY has disabled the use of javascript and the "eval" script as.   
ebaY claims this is due to security reasons, but TAG holds that
is a lie, because if true, ebaY would not use javascript for their
own functions. The real reason is to limit the features sellers
and third party service providers can add to listings. As
technology opens easy linking and integration across the
internet, ebaY continues to attempt to build walls.   Soon they will
have to add razor wire and barbed wire to those walls to keep the
"community" contained.

The incompatible scripts are disabled on all ebaY pages where
text can be entered, including the SYI form, the About Me pages
and certain other areas of the site. In addition, all JavaScript is
disabled on the general chat boards.

This change affects Revise Your Item (if the original item
description contains the JavaScript), item Relist and Sell Your
Item if members continue to manually include this JavaScript in
their item description.

ebaY has teamed up with a third-party warranty company to allow
sellers to offer optional warranties with their listings. This
service will be free for sellers to offer and will be available in a few
weeks. Sellers may insert cut-and-paste HTML coding into their item
descriptions and buyer emails to sell the warranty option for ebaY.
Most new and used computers, peripherals, consumer electronics, cameras,
and musical instruments will be eligible for coverage. If the product is
used, it must be less than five years old. TAG hopes that ebaY
discloses what they are getting in kickbacks from the warranty company,
and we wonder what the seller kickback will amount to.

ebaY has a Fall Fashion Blowout promotion until 17 Oct.
For more info on participating go to -

ebaY is planning on integrating PayPal into the ebaY.com
platform over the next few weeks. The integration will add -
*Choice of PayPal as a payment option on the Sell Your Item
*Visible placement of the PayPal logo, when offered, on the View
Item page
*The ability to sort by listings that offer PayPal as a payment
To preview go to - http://www.ebay.com/paypal/preview/

Sellers will continue to have the option to use the forms of
payment they prefer. PayPal will be another option for sellers
who wish to offer it. These changes will be available for
auction-style and fixed-price listings on ebaY.com, and in the
Parts & Accessories and Everything Else categories of ebaY
Motors, though not in the Vehicles categories. PayPal will be
supported as a listing option on ebaY Motors Vehicles over the
next few months. ebaY does not plan to support PayPal on ebaY
's real estate listings. Globally, PayPal will be supported on
ebaY.co.uk over the next few weeks. ebaY 's other International
sites may support PayPal as a payment option at a later date.

ebaY will keep Billpoint available until after the first of the year.
ebaY will soon eliminate Billpoint registration.

ebaY is launching a gift service icon costing 25 cents per auction
that will show that the seller will give some optional gift serves to
buyers. These services include   -
-Gift Wrap/Gift Card
-Express Shipping
-Ship to Gift Recipient
Buyers will be able to search for the above Gift Services. For
more info go to -

In a move TAG predicted over a year ago, ebaY is making the first
moves in limiting how sellers and buyers can comment about
each other. Though this appears to be a small thing, it sets
dangerous precedent. ebaY has decided to limit how a buyer
can enter a bid retraction, forcing the buyers into not telling the
truth about their bid retraction, and removing one of the last
methods for ebaY users to warn other ebaY users about
fraudulent sellers. The current bid retraction policy is still in

The current bid retraction form requires the user to manually
enter the explanation for retracting a bid. ebaY will now limit the
buyer to a pull down menu with what ebaY considers valid
reasons for the bid retraction:
*Entered wrong bid amount
*Seller changed the description of the item
*Cannot contact the seller

How about -
Seller is shilling his auctions
Seller is a fraudulent seller and will not deliver the merchandise
Item is not what it appears to be
Image is stolen from auction xxxxxxxx
Seller contact information is not valid

If this change goes into effect unchanged, look for ebaY to find a
way to do something similar with feedback, in an effort to
"protect" their corporate sellers/partners such as Return Buy,
Disney, Butterfields etc.

ebaY will hold a Vintage and Antique Clothing workshop on Sun
13 Oct, from 17:00 PT to 19:00 PT.

ebaY Bid for a Cure promotion page.

ebaY Switzerland has changed. Now, users will be able to
register directly with ebaY Switzerland and trade in their own
currency. http://www.ebay.ch/

ebaY is adding a holiday season threaded board the Decorative
& Holiday category-related discussion board. Go to -

ebaY has added Halloween portal page -

Rumors about ebaY thinking of closing all the on site boards -

For those sellers using Mister Lister, if you are having problems
with error messages, it may be due to the ebaY UNIX server
limitations. UNIX servers have a limitation of 1000 characters
per line of text before they need a line break. If an item
description line goes over 1000 characters before you hit "Enter",
then this would cause the problem. In your item descriptions,
you need to make sure that you press the "Enter" key before you
reach 1,000 characters or it will get truncated and you may
receive errors.

Turbo Lister work around - Write your auctions in Mister Lister,
then import them into TL
Ongoing Issues and Information
See the TAG website for miscellaneous ebaY info at -

ebaY CONTACT for ebaY, ebaY UK, Billpoint, Half.Com,
information including analog mail and email addresses, phone
numbers, regular and toll free, refund info, close account info,
and insider trading info etc can be found at

* * * * *
Amazon , zShops and Marketplace - On 1 Oct as 16:40 PT,
Amazon posted that some Amazon Payments transactions were
taking longer than usual to complete processing. Amazon
warns sellers to not ship until the completed status appears in
Seller Account information, or until "Sold--Ship Now!"
e-mail is received.   

On 2 Oct at 20:20 PT, Amazon acknowledged that due to
maintenance, some
third-party platforms were offline between 22:30 PT on Fri 4 Oct
and 01:00 PT on Sat 5 Oct. This caused -
* Auctions, zShops, and Amazon Marketplace items were not
purchasable on US, DE, and UK web sites
* Auctions and zShops sites were down for the duration of the
maintenance, including seller tools, Amazon Payments Account
information, and Amazon Honor System information

On 5 Oct at 03:57 PT Amazon posted that maintenance on the
third-party platform was completed by Sat morning, and all
systems were available and online.

On 9 Oct at 15:37 PT Amazon posted that sellers were reporting
that a portion of their listings are appearing online and available
for sale, but are not appearing in the "Open Listings" section of
their Seller Account. Amazon said this is a display issue only and
does not prevent buyers from purchasing open items. At 20:17
PT Amazon took their payments services down from approx
23:00PT to 23:30 PT. During this time payments and refunds
were on hold. Buyers were still able to make purchases.
Transactions were processed and updated once the
maintenance was complete.

On 10 Oct at 17:16 PT Amazon announced they had fixed the
"Open Listings" display issue.

Amazon live telephone customer service 16 hours a day
Toll-free in U.S. and Canada: (800)201-7575
Auction Pro phone number 1-877-251-0696
NEW! Amazon Contact Info Page on TAG website -

* * * * *
Yahoo Auction/Used Goods/Classifieds (YA) - Is holding a
Halloween 99 cent no reserve showcase from 9 - 30 October.
When a sellers lists, the showcase option will only show up on
the Submit page if a showcase is currently running for that
category. The showcase option will only be available to sellers
who have been a Yahoo user for 60 days and have a minimum
rating of 10 OR have a verified address with Yahoo PayDirect

Yahoo is changing their Yahoo Shopping options to person to
person sellers by removing the Used Good (Warehouse) option
for sellers. Details will be in Part III of TAGnotes.
Ongoing Issues -

Yahoo Contact Information

Yahoo Customer Support form

* * * * *
Ruby Lane closed their Charter Shop Program to new shops on
1 Oct. Ruby Lane, still has shop promotions, one of which is that
they credit your shop account $15 for every referral that uses your
shop nickname when opening.

Ruby Lane now has 825 shops and over 100 new shops
opened in August.

For more information on Ruby Lane shops

* * * * *
Interesting article on internet usage by workers - "Some 23
percent of those workers surveyed said they considered news
the most addictive Web content, compared with 18 percent who
reported pornography, eight percent for gambling and six percent
online auctions. Overall news came in a very close second to
online shopping, which 24 percent of those surveyed said they
considered addictive." Full story at -

* * * * *
The Canadian provinces are working on passing Consumer
Protection 21, online consumer protection laws dealing with
online sales. These laws will require all online sellers to
provide an eContract and off line analog physical address to all
buyers up front.
Source CBC Radio As it Happens
Have any information for us? email us at
TAG Subscribers often contribute invaluable information reported
on in TAGnotes. Visit their auctions or websites.

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